Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I know I keep going back to the $20 logo, but if we collectively make a stand and say, like, we know our work is worth just as much as an engineer's work, there's no difference between being a creative brain or a technical brain. If we collectively get to that point where we all feel that passionate, then.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: We can do it.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: We can collectively raise the prices. We can collectively rise up. We can collectively show the world that you don't have to be broke to be a creative.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Welcome to the Society Gal podcast, where trailblazing female entrepreneurs and creatives come together to spark change and build their dreams. This is where your passion meets purpose, and together we're crafting a future where everyone has the tools to succeed.
All right, everybody, welcome to the Society Gal podcast. We were so excited to have Kim Price on this podcast with us today and to really hear all about what she is bringing to this industry of freelancers and her new app coming and everything. So, Kim, before we dig into those deep topics, we would love to hear your story of how you got here today with what you're doing for sure.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Well, first, thank you for having me. It definitely feels great to be in a community of women who are making things happen and love creativity from the source of their hearts, from the bottom of their hearts. But I started my journey as a graphic designer, so I went to school for graphic design and advertising and kind of did that in a couple of different bigger agencies, some smaller agencies, a startup, before I ultimately landed at Meta, I worked there for about five years and got to really learn the ins and outs of what it looked like to run a business while being a creative, focused person. So soon after, I actually was affected by the tech layoffs. But in that time of being at Meta, I also had started my first endeavor, my first creative agency called Anchor. And it's been super fun, but there are definitely some hurdles into running a business, and I'm sure many of the, the people in this community are definitely aware of. So with that being said, I am in the process and pivoting a little bit to create a app that essentially helps the community through the freelancing journey, through figuring out how to better and more efficiently run their businesses.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: I'm so excited to dig deep into the awesome things you're bringing with the app. And you were, I mean, during COVID is where you kind of had a bigger shift, right? I just talked to somebody else about that, too. Their shift happened during COVID which is really cool when they had that pause, right?
[00:02:30] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: I think a lot of people, COVID, was like a turning point where they're just like, what am I doing? Is this what I want to do? Am I going to do this forever, or am I going to switch it up? So for me, it was like a step to the right.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: You were already running your agency. Tell us about your agency, anchor. Tell us a little bit about that. It has a very beautiful and unique mission that we love everyone to hear.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So anchor is a creative studio. We primarily work with minority led startups. And I started that agency because I did not see enough people that looked like me coming in and out of the doors. And I realized, like, a lot of big companies get the most support, but not everybody has that access. So how I run anchor is almost as a community of freelancers. So we all collectively work together. But in short, I'm bringing in projects for them, and they decide if they want to work on it or not. We have that community where we still operate and move as a team. We have, like, quarterly meetings and things like that. But if someone were to say, like, I don't want to work on this project or I don't have capacity, the beautiful thing is that they often know someone who will or be in it. So we get to kind of tag team people in and out, but it's not as loose as, like, a standard freelancer goes to an agency and sits there for two months and then is out.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: So, yeah. Cause your team is really amazing. If you look at the team that they have and you see everybody in their expertise and everything, it's a beautiful. Yeah. Diverse team that they bring so many also diverse skills. And I just love how unique your mission is to kind of bring more people that look like you and bring more people that look like other people that they don't usually see that can help them in their unique mission, in their business, for sure. It's awesome. Yeah, I love that. And so let me just talk about kind of your shift, because you just did talk about, yeah, you're shifting to Rome and your new app. What really brought you to make that next step to. Because that's a really big project.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: It's like a huge project.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: My goodness bravery for doing that and pushing that forward.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: I gotta say, it's definitely scary. But unlike anchor, I have two incredible, amazing female co founders on the project as well, so we can get a lot more done a lot faster, and we have that support and encouragement from each other. But your question was, how did I step into Rome?
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, what made you kind of.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
Literally, I got tired of opening Google sheets and trying to put together P and ls, and I got tired of trying to Google like, oh, how much does this cost? Or how much should I charge a client? Or what do I say when a client doesn't pay me on time? Like, I got tired of doing those things and spending so much energy there as opposed to creating or building stronger work, right? So I was like, I know I'm not the only one. Everybody on this freelance crew that I have right now is like complaining about the same things. It's definitely a universal problem. And we set out to solve some of those administrative problems that a lot of creatives face.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: And we'll dig more into some of the tools as we go through the podcast. But since you're such a community builder on a mission to change the freelance industry as well, and how everyone works together, how does like Fiverr and upwork? When I think of your anchor and agency of freelancers, a lot of people think, oh, like Fiverr and upwork, right? But how are like places like Fiverr and upwork that host freelancers, right, and others are undercutting collective progress in your, in our field of freelancing, of contracted work? Like, how is that undercutting it and how are you changing it?
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So if I ever definitely have a place in the world, but my personal frustration is that a lot of us are in the states, or you live in the states and you have to pay $3 for eggs these days. And there are also people, other places who are able to charge a lot less because their cost of living is a lot less.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Right?
[00:06:14] Speaker A: So for an american client or brand to go on fiverr upwork, they're going to see a ton of ranges in pricing, right? They're going to see that $25 logo and cool, dandy. Happy that they have options, but sad that now I have to drop my price to $20 just to make something happen. On top of that, fiverr and upwork both take a good amount of money from creatives. I think at minimum it's 10%, but may be closer to 20% for one of them. And it's just like why? You know, we're doing the work, we're putting in the time. And to me it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that they get to have such a big share of such a small pie since we're only charging $20, you know, so, yeah, not here for it.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: And I like how we, when we talked before, like how you said the competition, but also people having to lower their prices. And it's just keeping people moving. You staying in the broke, like, you have to be broke to get work. Like, basically just working, working, working on a really low price. So you see that too. That kind of like you're just going to stay in this range and not raise our prices. Right, exactly.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: And it's like if you come in with a low price and I have to undercut myself and you need to go lower, it's just like, where are we going?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Like, you're not getting any work. You're not getting any quality work, but value you, right?
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like, sorry, client, but if you're paying me pennies, like, I can't spend weeks or months trying to make amazing work for you. Like, it just doesn't make sense.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: And I feel like on a place like five or upwork, it's hard for people to understand the process because there's.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Like, I need work.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: I need a product done, I need this done. It's just like shopping. Like, let me just take this and this and this.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's one of the great things about Rome. It's like, we will take the clients on that journey so they have a little bit more visibility into what the process is so they understand what they're paying for. It's not just about here's my deliverable. We're going to educate those clients on the journey so they understand what are usage rights? What does that mean for me as a brand and how does that impact the way that this freelancer is pricing their work? It's all about education. It's all about showing people that the value is more than just the end result.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And taking people through that process. We've talked before of just, like, raising your standard, and I feel like you are helping people do that. You're helping people raise their standard in the industry. Okay, so how does a digital, creative freelancer go from, like this broke kind of place or kind of just like fighting for pennies to get work to getting paid what they're worth? I think this is a really big question, but I feel like you have a nice process of how you help people get there, and then we can kind of talk about how your app is a tool to help people with that as well.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So how I think about it is essentially three steps. The first one being like, evaluate yourself, evaluate your self worth. Do you feel like you're worth more money? Do you feel like you deserve more? And I think about this kind of like dating, right? Like, you can get crumbs from some dude, but is that really what you want? Like, you. You don't want the crumbs. At least I don't. So it's really. It starts with yourself and kind of understanding, like, how much you value yourself if you have that confidence, right? You don't have to fake confidence. So that is what I feel like is the first key piece. Another key piece is understanding your clients values and figuring out where those two things align. For this one, I think of a Venn diagram and that intersection between the two points of values and then leaning into that, being able to say, like, I get you on a deep level, on a nuance level. I'm not faking it. Like, I want to understand you, and I do understand you. So I think those two things are super key.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: I feel like the understanding, not just yourself and your own worth, but also your work and the clients. I mean, like, for example, going back to fiverr and upwork when you're on there, just like, I just want clients to come to me. Whoever wants my project, I'll do the project for you. Compared to your setting the standard of what you want to come in and then bringing that in, I mean, like, these are the people I want to work with, have these certain characteristics. Have these certain values, because in the long term, you know you want to have fulfilling work, right? That's not going to work out. But I think that's a big thing in the industry of freelancing. Online work, online business, digital creative business is burnout. I think a lot of that has to do with pricing.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: I think a lot of it does have to do with pricing. That's why that is a really important part of what we're doing at Rome and why it's going to change industry. So really excited about that.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: I love that. And as far as, like, on the topic of getting paid what you're worth, I love what you said before, too, is a community uprising attitude. So again, you are such a great community leader, but having that more of, like, let's just rise together.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Exactly. Like, I know I keep going back to the $20 logo, but if we collectively make a stand and say, like, we know our work is worth just as much as an engineer's work, there's no difference between being a creative brain or a technical brain. If we collectively get to that point where we all feel that passionate, then.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: We can do it.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: We can collectively raise the prices. We can collectively rise up. We can collectively show the world that you don't have to be broke to be a creative.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: And how have you done that? I mean, I feel like we can do that within direct community.
You've already done that with the businesses you built. But, like, yeah, how did, how have you done that?
[00:11:35] Speaker A: So, I mean, therapy and God, those two, always beyond that. For me, it's really just about, like, being comfortable saying, no clients will come to us and say, oh, we want you to do this product that's not aligned with my values or our values as a company that we set. And it's like, yes, that money would be nice.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: I would.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: I would like it. Don't get me wrong. But if I take that money from that person, it's going to bring in more people like them.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Right?
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Like, it's going to.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: They're in rougher.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: And it's like, okay, do I want to be in this cycle of working with a bunch of people I don't want to work with or working for a bunch of companies I don't believe in? Like, no, I'm not going to do it. So I think it's just having the ability to say no and to trust your gut on to when to kind of pass on some opportunities.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: It's really also, like you said, the first thing when it comes to is the self value. Like, you value yourself and your work. And what is that? Like, what does that mean? You know, with your long term goals? I feel like that comes back into what you value now. Right. What are your long term goals? And it comes to, like, what does the money mean? Right. Like, how you're making that point. I'm just like, yeah, it's money, but, like, what does it mean? Does it not work out? Does it mean, like, you are barely sleeping? Does it mean lost relationships? It's money, but it does mean something in our life, right? Yeah.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: And I think I'm going back to the upwork thing and fiber thing. I think a lot of people move out of desperation in those spaces. But again, like, we don't have to if we all just kind of go against the flow, like, we can collectively move.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: So. Yes. Listen to Kim. She's telling you to raise your standard.
You don't have to do it. And so let's talk about when we're talking about pricing and, like, raising pricing, I think pricing is one of the biggest talked about topics and concerns and struggles with people because it's so multidimensional. Right. It's not just, here's a number or here's a pricing calculator or something. There's so many tools out there that can help us get to that point. And so tell us a little bit about this really cool tool that you're bringing to the industry in your app row, which is the, like, guided pricing fee finder. Tell us a little bit about that because I think that's super cool. I love it.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So, like you mentioned, calculators have been out there for a while. Like pricing calculators. What's special about roam is that we're taking into account everything. We're taking into account what software you're using, where you live, where your client lives, your past clients, your education, all of those things on top of the deliverables, the due dates and the rush fees and so on and so on. So because we are creatives, we're able to, like, nuance that pricing suggestion a lot more clearly and a lot tighter than a lot of these calculators that are out there currently. So for us, that's the core of our work. Right at the end of the day, any businesses opened? Maybe not any business. Most businesses are open because they would like to make some money. So I think especially in the creative field, it's easy to be like, oh, I'm going to charge XYZ for this thing, and I'm only going to do it in 2 hours. But then 20 hours in, you're still working on it, right? So for us, it's really important to get that down from the start. So that's when we're focused on pricing. We're tired of googling how much to charge. I know you're tired of googling it.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: With those pricing calculators. It's like, you need to do the work. Like, I get a pricing calculator, like, yeah, I could put numbers in, but I have to go search it. I think on the search to do that, everyone gets so, like, syndrome and overwhelmed. They're like, okay, I can't charge that. I see that number, but I can't do it.
I feel like that feature of your app, it, like, shows proof. This is showing you that you need to charge this much because of this, this, this, which is like, I've never even heard of anything like that. It's so unique.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah, we're super excited about it. I mean, one of the small aspects of the calculator is if you are undercutting yourself, we'll tell you. Like, we'll be like, hey, sis, love you, but you got this. You can do it. And you try to be encouraging in that way, because if we don't move as a community, then it's hard for anybody to move. So we definitely are trying to coach and share the insights that we've gained throughout our creative careers and yeah, help everyone out.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: I love that. Besides that tool, I just like share one more thing. Like, what's another really favorite part of the app that you're putting out?
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So we're definitely going to do the project management, client management aspect of things, which I feel like is kind of the baseline, but what I'm more excited about is our ability to do reviews. So again, like, people are tired of the long email chains and like, huh, what was that comment? What did they want? Like, nobody's got time for that. So being able to centralize that in the same place and being able to kind of offer that as a feature in the product is also just part of making the lives easier of creative, saving them time and saving them money.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: So, yeah, I feel like there's a lot of client management softwares and project management softwares, and you're really making a merged one because I personally use Zipsado. I'm sure people over here use Zipsado honeybook. Like a lot of things that are client management based. But then you're like, okay, well, now I have to track the project and the tasks and that's a whole other thing that's really hard to do in a client management system that's so client management specific. So I think that's so unique about that tool coming out. Is that so? We're so excited, so excited to see it and for it to come out into the world and for people to try it. But I just had to kind of highlight that tool. I think that would really help everyone with pricing. It was such a big topic, such a hard thing to do. Yes. And so whatever. The last few questions, I love to ask, because, again, you're just a great community leader, and with your agency anchor and roam, it's just kind of like those values are so strong throughout them. But why do you think access to a diverse community is so important in the digital creative world? Because we do need more of it.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, on the surface, I think we all know this, right? Like, think about the way the world looked five years ago and then the way the world looked ten years ago. It's a different place, and if we aren't ahead of that curve, we're only going to hurt ourselves, right? So for me, I think about when I first started my career and I was a young block designer at a big agency that a lot of people know. And I was working on McDonald's, and I remember black history month coming up and them doing the whole, like, hey, you're the one black. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Like, help us on this project. And it made me feel weird, you know? It did not feel good. And then I also remember being in rooms where it's, like, hyper diverse to the point that there is no white man. You know, like, we're being so intentional that we exclude the majority. I'm like, I don't think of. That's cool either. So for me, it's a tricky balance at times, but having that diversity and having diverse communities is really where magic happens. It's where, you know, ideas come alive. It's where things are added on and built on and torn apart and redone. And I think just having diverse communities is what matters and how we can grow as individuals, but also as creatives.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: And if you think about just the different cultures, different cultures that everyone experiences in their life, too, I mean, just what they can bring in their perspectives, you know, I feel like, let's just say America. Like, you're born and raised in America. Let's say it's a very individualistic society, right? We have a very certain way of thinking, but someone who is probably still born in America but raised differently, have different culture background, different traditions, different way of life, different way of living, different values, I just think that is so valuable and really just kind of opens everyone's eyes of what could be done, what's a possibility. I feel like we can just be so single minded of, like, this is how it should be done because I think it's a great way, but it's based on our own experience, right. Or life experience, how things were done. And I just think diverse communities, like you said, pave the way, or almost like trailblazers with new ideas and new way of doing things. So I love that you are able to bring so much opportunity for people to do that. Be open to that.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: I want to end with one last question. It's one of my favorite questions to ask, which is, what has been one of your biggest failures, but greatest learning lessons while, you know, running your business or building this business.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I hate to be, like, the money girl, but it comes down to that. Like, I have had my agency anchor for three years now, and the first two years, I was very much about getting great projects and making opportunities for other people to the point where I didn't make an opportunity for myself. So I wasn't paying myself. I was just kind of gone with the flow, making sure everybody else was happy. And then when I got laid off, it was like, yo, you're gonna need to pay your rent, too. So I think one of the biggest failures in learning lessons is, you know, you can be generous, you can be kind, whether that's the clients or the people you work with, other people in your community and your family. But at the same time, you also have to remember that you are worth paying. You are worth being in this space, being in this world. So you have to treat yourself well.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: I love that. Well, thank you so much for being on here with us. Is there any last words you want to say to anybody? Listening? And then where can we find you?
[00:20:25] Speaker A: You can definitely find me on LinkedIn. Kim Price. Pretty simple. And check us out at Rome. It's useroam IO.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Thank you.
