Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Put yourself in the client's shoes. Walk through that process as if you were about to purchase this contract, right? So the whole same concept of you can step into their shoes. You'll be like, oh, I don't like this part. I'm too worthy here. That's too many emails. If you just take yourself out of the business and not stop looking at it from the lens of being the leader, but more so, looking at a customer focus portion, you'll be able to understand better how they'll receive it and what is going to make you stand out with them.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Welcome to the society Gal podcast, where trailblazing female entrepreneurs and creatives come together to spark, change and build their dreams. This is where your passion meets purpose. And together we're crafting a future where everyone has the tools to succeed.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the society Gal podcast. We have a very special, amazing guest with us today, Dashara Milan. And she's going to share everything about hospitality in business and the hidden power in all of our businesses. So we're first going to start with just getting to know you. So tell us about how you got to this place where you're helping others have a hospitality centered business.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for having me and everyone at society gal, first and foremost, for just connecting with me and allowing me to be here on this platform. It is such an amazing place for freelance entrepreneurs and freelance entrepreneur women. And I just love everything that you're doing. So thank you so much for having me as your guest. Okay, so my business journey honestly kind of fell in my lap initially. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur, ever since I took a marketing class in high school. And I was like, I just didn't know how, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Kind of just knew I wanted to work for myself. And so throughout the years, I realized I practiced different things, such as, like babysitting. I mean, everyone, that's their first, like, gig, right? Babysitting or, you know, doing things with marketing, just different tactics to see what I liked. And honestly, it was once I started getting into my career, when I realized, wow, like, I love hospitality. And so I looked at all my different positions in my career and I was like, I love the hospitality industry. And so that ranged from different hotels to restaurants to rentals and as well as different places like that. And so throughout my journey, I was like, man, I want to work for myself. I want to work for myself. Well, here comes pandemic 2020.
Dun dun dun. And I actually walked across the stage. I got my masters. I was excited. I knew I was going to find a position in my career, just continuing to grow in my career. And I walked across the stage in March 2020, and the next week the world shut down. And I was pretty much thrusted in entrepreneurship at that point. And through that season, I was able to just develop my business. And my business ultimately started as me just helping. I realized that I had so much resources, wealth of knowledge, with my degrees, but also with my career that I was like, I feel like I can help people in my community, help so many small business owners with their businesses. And I was like, I can use what I learned as a resource. And so that's what kind of led me into my consultant and coaching business to be able to support other small business owners and entrepreneurs to find the hospitality, the secret sauce, I call it, or the secret recipe to how they actually can develop their businesses.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I love that journey a lot of times, the COVID that changed us all, and I think in many great ways launch entrepreneurship. That's awesome. So let's dig into hospitality, what it is and what it means in our business, because a lot of people hear that word, and it's kind of, I feel like a distant word for some people. Let's break that down into what it means in all of our businesses. So why is it so important to have a customer focused or people focused business? Like, why do you think that's so important to have?
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Because they're the most important part of your business. I truly believe if you understand your customers, if you understand the people that you're actually trying to serve, that is what literally drives your business. And so for me, hospitality is serving people. It's serving people. As soon as they come into your presence, what do they feel like? How do they leave you? It's really like something that has to be within you. And it's honestly, I always joke, it's kind of like that golden rule we learned in kindergarten, like treating people the way you wanted to be treated. And so that's where hospitality, of course, it's a broad industry, but it can be utilized in every business sector because your customers, your clients, whether they're b, two b, business to business, or whether they're b, two c, business to consumer, everybody has a customer. And if you can think of your customer, whether it is a big corporation or whether it's a small individual person, as a person, as an entity, as a being, it helps you to drive your actual business and develop it and be able to develop a customer focused business.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: We talked a little bit about customer retention. And before we get into that, I love what you're saying about everyone has a client, everyone has people to people, right? And I think so often in our business we start getting transactional. Like transaction, transaction, transaction. We start not seeing people as people. I think that's really, really common. So let's talk about customer retention of, like, it's not just, here's a transaction, great, we got business, goodbye. There's more to that. Explain like where hospital hospitality goes further than that. Like we take it way further.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Right.
So honestly, I actually developed a course about this. It's called all about the customer. And this course specifically walks the newest entrepreneur or even someone that's already in business. And they talk about basically just building your business based upon your customer and who your potential customers are. But the biggest thing is when you were talking about customer retention, and I want to highlight is something I call the customer service cycle. And that cycle is basically understanding each step and it has many steps in between, but each step of the customer service cycle. And when you get to the last step, which is loyalty, that's where customer retention comes in. And so the customer retention is basically, what did you do to allow your customer to be like, wow, I love this place, I want to come back. If you can retain your. It actually costs more to find new customers. That's something we learned in school. It actually costs you more to find and acquire new customers versus retaining your current clientele. You could save a lot of money doing that. And so what I realized is that once I realized customer retention, I've basically been trying to help a lot of my clients and just people in general understand that if you can come up with a plan to retain your customers will be able to keep your business going and build that brand loyalty. You think of all the big companies of the world, why are people still going to them after 70 plus years that they've been in business? What makes them different from the newest one? That's what matters. That distinguishing competitive advantage. That's what is your thing and that's your customer retention and loyalty that you're building with brand recognition.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah, creating that culture almost. And I mean, a lot of people think, okay, marketing, we're getting marketing people in and selling them and getting them out. And I'm like, wait, there's a whole other, you're still marketing. Like, you're never going to stop marketing to this client no matter if they had a transaction with you or have not. Especially a lot of people on here who are service based business owners, it kind of seems like that where you're like, I did a service for you, goodbye. But personally, my business, I mean, one client has brought in tens of thousands of dollars for me by referring me to other clients because they can't stop referring me. So it's like one client can bring in ten more, 20 more, 30 more clients, and we see the power of word of mouth, just especially with social media and all those things. And we're talking about, like, Google reviews, even of just the power of a good one or the power of a bad one, right, exactly, yes.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: And honestly, I think with that whole concept of, like, everyone thinks, like, automatically it's like, oh, get the sale, get the sale. You're pretty much building the sale. From the moment you're introduced to them, from the moment they see you, that's the introduction. You're still trying to build that sale. And you won't get to the sales phase of the customer service cycle until they experience you. They understand, they feel welcome, they feel connected. They're like, why? I mean, think about all the brands that we shop with. And it's like, why do I go there? Like, what is it that makes me like, for me, I love certain places and I love them because of how they treat me when I'm there. I know that I'm gonna get the same service. Whether I go to one store, another store, it's gonna continue. And that is what builds up that customer base that you're looking for. And then, like you said, the referrals, we know the power of the negative review, right? As soon as you see it on Yelp or you see it on Google, you're like, I'm not even going there. They may have just had one bad review, but that one bad review connected with you that you're like, I'm not going. So all of that to say, if you understand your customer from the first point of, like, contact all the way to the end of the cycle, you'll be able to deliver a great business product that will be sustainable over time.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Yeah, let's talk about the customer service cycle. Let's break down what the customer service cycle is and how that plays a big part in all of our businesses and why we need to understand what our clients go through. Because it's not getting a sale or starting a sale, it's starting a relationship. And I think that's the biggest thing that you're going to explain here when we talk about the customer service cycle.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Yes, totally. So I came up with a customer service cycle based upon what? I was just sitting down and thinking about, like, what is that process for? You know, once a customer comes into your pathway, how do you secure them? And I also feel like you have to be talented in, at least if you have a team, it's helpful to get someone that's talented in different moving parts. Right. So the customer cycle starts with the introduction. And introduction is just basically, how do they encounter you? What piques their interest in you? You know, what is directing them to you once you have that introduction? Now it's the experience. So how are you providing a welcome experience to them? Like, if they walk into a store, what does it smell like? What's the music playing? What's the vibe? Right. That's the experience that they are experiencing you now. They may or may not get the sale, but that's when we go to the next step, which is the sale. The sale is how effectively, and this is more of an operational thing, but how are you effectively and efficiently helping the sales process? What's that process? Is it organized? Does it have some type of operational excellence to it? Does it have a standard operating procedure depending on what type of business you are? That is the part that a lot of people don't realize because if you think about it, when someone books and there's not a process, people are like, oh, this is not professional. I don't know. Can I trust? Is this a legitimate business? All of that plays a role. And people are always, I hate to say it, but they're judging you as they're doing the process.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: The tone, exactly. The sales process sets the tone for how that you're going to work together with them, especially if you think of service based businesses, too. The sales process sets the tone. So, like, in your emails and the proposal and how it looks and how confident you are on the call and how organized and prompt and the communication points, like all those things, you're right, they're judging you. Like, they're just like, hmm. Like, how is this going to feel when I actually work with them? We're going to pay for them $5,000 or $10,000 for the service. We're talking a lot to a lot of freelancers and entrepreneurs here on online service based business owners. It's all those little things on if someone's going to vibe with you, if they're going to, you know, really like to work with you personally as well. It all sets the tone for how they're going to work with you.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: So totally. And then, too, it's just the, you know, as far as, like, what distinguishes you right from that? When you're doing that sales process, whether, you know, how do you complete the sale, what is your purchase processing? Like, what, what steps do they take? Do that. And so the sales process, of course, with the, depending on if it's just you and you're a solopreneur or if it's you and a team, like, you have to understand the sales process and ask yourself the right questions and then make sure it's duplicatable, meaning if you do it or if you get a team or you get a virtual assistant or whatever, they can do the exact same process for you and it has to be authentic to you. Because I realize a lot of times when I even just doing my, you know, intro discovery calls with a lot of clients and I may not get the client and I'm totally fine with that. But I also remember how I left them because they'll come back. They'll come back or they'll see me again or they'll be remember something that I said. And usually I leave them with a nugget, whether that's, you know, they may not take the sale, they may get the sale, but I'm leaving them with something so that they remember who I was. And so I want to drop that gem to any entrepreneur or freelancer. Like, even if you don't get that sale, a lot of the no's, eventually they're not just not yet. You know, they'll come back around and if not, it's totally fine. Someone else will. But what I will say is that it's that unique distinguishing fact that makes you different, that will stand out and help you through that sales process.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: I like how you said you're going to leave them with something. I think that's so great because I think a lot of people are like, oh, they say, no, they hate me. I feel like a lot of, like, solopreneurs or entrepreneurs that are listening to this get that very personal, like, oh, it's very personal and less business. Right. I think some people can get resentful and can have those, like, feelings come up of like, oh, they're not going to book me. I'm way out of the price range. Just forget about you. Like, forget it. Just like goodbye or ghost you or whatever that looks like. But I love how you said no matter what, you're going to help them on their journey. Like, you're going to give them a little something. Because no matter what, even if they're not the right fit for you, they're going to refer you to someone else that might be the right fit. Hey, they weren't for me or I didn't have the budget. But I think you have the budget. You would love to work with them. You never know how one little thing you say or help them with is going to make an impression on them. So I love that.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Exactly. And honestly, that's what the distinguishing thing for you or your competitive advantage is. You actually care about people, right? You're actually about the client. You're understanding their needs or whatever that may be, and you're still understanding, like, it's not about me, it's actually about serving you. What do you need help with? And if I can't help you, or I'm not the perfect person for you in this season and time, at least I helped you on that way, on that journey. That's what makes you different, and that's what's going to help you stand out.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Big perspective change also on ourselves.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: It helps us create a boundary for ourselves, not take it so personally, not think about ourselves so much of, like, me, me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I. What's wrong with me? You know, kind of thing. But just like, hey, I. I was there for them and whatever part of their journey they were on, you're not waiting for the actual service to happen or the actual product for them to purchase, to have an experience. You're starting it right away. You're giving them something and serving them right when they get into your world or even before it.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: And I also want to encourage the entrepreneurs that are listening in my journey. And I found I was definitely taking it personal, especially in the beginning, because I was like, hey, Colin, I'm giving you all my secret, pouring my soul out. And to be honest, someone taught me there's a thing called entrepreneur burnout. And I just want to speak to that person, whoever's listening. Like, it's, if you are tired trying to build this business, build your practice, whatever you're trying, it's totally fine. Take a moment, take a day, reflect, pause. Realize that you're in this because you are skilled at it and we need you to do whatever it is that you do. And then once you have gotten yourself to give out, just really take into consideration each person to the next one. To the next one is helping you prepare for your ideal client. Each person is a step towards the ideal client. I mean, if I would have given up when I first started, I probably wouldn't be as great as what I am. Now. And I would have just been like, I'm just not going to do it. I'm going back to whatever I'm supposed to be doing. So I just want to encourage whoever's listening, like, just know that it's a real thing and it's okay to feel that way, but just know, like, everything you're doing is just steps towards what your real, true goal is.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah, just, it's a learning journey. Right? I love that. I feel like with every new inquiry, new client coming in, we learn something new about ourselves or process or how we can do better, and I love that. So let's continue on the customer service cycle and explain the rest. After the sales.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Yes. So after the sale is just the loyalty. And that one is, like I said, the most important. That is, what is their quality of your product and service? Like, what is that that you've given them? How do you build relationships? And we talked about that, and I can go into that more, but building relationships, and then also to. My favorite thing is how do you recover if something happens? And so with the building relationships, I'll start with that, with, like, customer service. Relationship management is a really missing piece that I realize a lot of companies are not adding into their business model. And the truth is, when building relationships, it's just connecting with people. I know we've all been virtual for so long that we're just like, oh, we don't know how to talk into. Listen, if you can have a conversation with people, you're still able to build relationships. Find something that you connect with the customer about. So for me, I love shoes, right? So if I saw a customer come in and I see some cute shoes, I am definitely going to shout her out and be like, girl, those shoes are cute. Where did you get them? The other day, I was stopping by McDonald's, and the young lady, she just looked really sad, and I was like, you got pretty eyes. It changed her whole day. There's nothing hard to connect with people. This world has gone so technology that we forgot how to talk each other. And so it's really easy to build those relationships. And so as you are on a call with a potential client, learn about who they are, their families, where do they come from? What. What do they speak different languages? Like, find out something that's unique to them that you're interested in and actually care, and then utilize that. That's how you're building brand loyalty. They're going to remember, wow. When they were talking to Dashira, oh, my God, I just felt something different. About her. She really was really kind and sweet or whatever it is. And the same thing goes for you. And then as far as the recovery side, I love this part because this is my area. This is basically when we mess up, how do we fix it? Because a lot of people, we will mess up. We're not perfect. And how do you fix it? Okay. And it depends on whatever your entity is. There's always a way to fix it. And a lot of times what I do, I call it tier systems. Okay. The tier system is basically high level. Like, oh, man, we messed up really bad. We got to do XYZ high level stuff. There's middle stuff, like, okay, we can kind of maybe give them this, give them that, and then there's the lower level stuff where you kind of little things, but still significant. So, for example, let's say we mess up on, you know, a client needed a project done by a certain time, and life happens on our side and we're late. What does that look like? Of course, I'm letting the client know in advance, like, hey, I'm not going to be able to get this done in enough time. Is there any flexibility? This is what's going on. Transparency is also good. This is going on in my life, I promise you. This is not normally what is happening for me, but I really need your assistance to allow me to get this project done. If it's a no, then this is where we. I have to find out what our, you know, response will be, whether we have to give up the project and give it back to them, or whether it's, you know, we have to hire help to assist us, whatever that may be. We have to figure out what the thing is and then how do we recover? If we fix the problem, how do you recover? What does it look like? You know, I'm going to give you XYZ percentage off, or you just decide on what's best for you and your business model, but using this as an example to kind of show, like. And then the way you fix it is how you avoid not having that brand loyalty, having a bad Google review, and just being able to. Maybe even if you messed up, you can fix it and being able to provide that service to the customer.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And the transparency really stood out to me. I think that's the biggest thing. And I think there's a lot of people out there that are scared to be transparent, like they're scared to tell people the truth. I'm going to be late and then wait until they are late, and then there's a whole thing of them being disappointed because they're late. But I love how you said transparency and well in advance, knowing, okay, I'm probably not able to get that done in time and just working with them. I think people really appreciate that instead of just being blindsided by, like, you're late, or, I totally messed up because of this and I didn't communicate with you. I think it's always, like, communication and expectation that's so important that I think a lot of people fear. But I'm sure, like what you said, it's way better to be communicative and transparent than just letting it kind of sit there and tell. They're like, wait, what's happening? You know?
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Yes. No, it's literally, how do you recover? And I think one thing I learned, and this is definitely from my career, is like, just I've worked with some of the biggest hospitality brands and I've seen how they recovered from terrible situations. And that's been something I've added into my business and how I teach my clients because I'm like, without that recovery piece, because a lot of times we're like, oh, everything's good, everything's going fine. Something's going to happen. It never fails. And you just have to have something in place to be able to help you prepare for that.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Hey, this is Dana from society gal. And I wanted to take a quick break to tell you about the society gal Academy, the exclusive membership that helps entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs like you, launch, grow, and scale your business. Join weekly expert led workshops, access to on demand courses, and connect with a supportive network of go getters just like you. Are you ready to elevate your business? Visit society gal Academy today.
And I love how you have that whole recovery piece because I think a lot of people think I messed up so bad. I can't go back from this. I'm just going to let it be how it is and not because I'm so scared, you know? Like, I feel like there's a lot of people that make mistakes and feel like they can't get back from it and they can't recover their reputation. But I love how you're saying there's hope. There's the biggest businesses make mistakes and have to work really hard to do better, and we can always come back from that. And I love that hopeful message for people who do mess up. We all do.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: You can just be honest and transparent. I promise you it goes wrong.
And if it doesn't, and we do encounter the angry client, like, I've had so many angry clients and just like my career that I'm used to it, that I'm just like, okay, I've done it so much that I teach people not just based on that, but just kind of understanding. Like, yes, you will have an angry client. You will have someone that doesn't respond to you in the nice warm and fuzzy way. It's how do you respond accordingly and keep your respect as well for them, but also to accountability, being transparent and honest. I think those things help you to be able to really articulate. And most, most clients are fine with it. It's, you know, there's some people that just get angry for reasons and you just have to learn how to handle them.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Like, be experienced in business, like, yes, just, you're gonna come along people with the price.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Like, you're like, okay, I understand you're upset. I'm gonna make you feel a little bit better and I will, you know, calm you down with whatever my recovery is.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: So I'm gonna ask you one more question about this customer service cycle, since we're on that. But how would you recommend to add in people's, I guess, experience or process of how to prevent those things from happening? What are like the main things in someone's process that they need or experience they need to have in their business that helps prevent those explosions from happening or miscommunication or things like that? What's your recommendation on that?
[00:22:30] Speaker A: I honestly think everyone should have somewhat of an operational plan, and they may call it different things like standard operating procedures, but basically the operational plan I used to basically how I do everything in cycles and steps, right? And so a lot of my stuff is like, walk me through the process. I tell every single client I work with, walk me through your entire process of your business. Like, from the moment you get a client coming inquiring, walk me through that process. And as they walk me through the process, I somewhat pick apart that process to show them where the areas are that they can have error. And then from there, that's when we can build a plan together of like, this is what's going to happen first, this is what happen next. This is. And we should be able to duplicate it every single time.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: I think a lot of people don't do this, but do an audit of every single touch point and communication point that is happening within the process. And this is where I think we're not seeing what the client's experiencing. We're seeing on our end what we're sending and putting out there. I think a lot of people don't understand what their client actually is experiencing or what questions are having throughout the whole thing that we could have answered in an email or in a communication touch point. And those little tiny things of answering their questions before they're asked is huge. Like huge in quality of their experience because you don't have to like wonder and oh, you know, what's happening with this? You want them to know what's going to happen next, when you're going to talk to them and not have to wonder or guess, you know, or doubt.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Exactly. And to be honest, everyone doesn't find the benefit of having an faq or frequently asked question section on your page, on your website because a lot of times it'll be the same thing, just reword it a different way. But a lot of that is figuring out, okay, what exactly is this going to look like for each client? What is that process? Who's going to be talking to them? And honestly put yourself in the client's shoes, walk through that process as if you were about to purchase this contract. Right. So the whole same concept of you can step into their shoes. You'll be like, oh, I don't like this part. I'm too wordy here. That's too many email. If you just take yourself out of the business and not stop looking at it from the lens of being the leader, but more so looking at a customer focused portion, you'll be able to understand better how they'll receive it and what is going to make you stand out with them.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Exactly. There's your whole process. If you sit down, you don't go through it.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: I had to, like when I initially did like created my like intake forms and stuff and I was like, okay, let me play with like this form and see what it looks like and how does it go? And I went through the whole like conditional. You know, when you go in condition, if this is clicked, then this is click. Like all of, I test out everything with myself first and then if it doesn't look right or I'm not really liking that, I'll switch it and then figure out what I prefer best and then from there your customers would appreciate that.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And you'll update it as you go through different clients and make it better. And it's just a continual, again, like there's never like a thing you build and you just leave it there. Like you gotta continually go back to it and be like, I need to make this email template. I need to adjust this email template because they keep having this question, you know, all those things, then they just, it helps in the long run. So you don't have to keep answering the same question over and over in email like that. If someone keeps asking the same question over and over again, different clients, there's a problem. Like, you need to be able to catch that before it happens again, you know? So just being aware, I think, of what your clients are experiencing and what you're experiencing with them as well.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: So the last piece too is surveys. Surveys and testimonials will tell you what you need to work on, what you don't need to work on. What's working fine with the loyalty step is like, if you can get some type of feedback from your clientele, that will help you a lot because they're going to tell you what they want, what they don't want, what they found useful, what it wasn't useful. And I think having some type of survey feedback form Google review, any of those things will help you to be able to better enhance your process. Yeah.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: And I think when you are asking for a review, instead of saying, here is the link to review, ask them questions like, help them with their reviews. They write a paragraph long review instead of like, here, can you give me a review? And then they write like three words, like, how would your experience when this happened or who would you recommend? Ask them like three different questions so they can answer in a paragraph long style so you get a good one. Thank you. You know, make them think about what they felt and help them remember that. And I think people will write a way better review or experience.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: It was great. That's my favorite one.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it was great. Five stars.
Awesome. Okay, so let's, let's dig into kind of a client experience that you've had. You've helped people.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Having a hospitality approach their business. So let's, let's kind of talk about this and the importance of knowing who you serve and how to serve them. So we talked a lot about the experience we're having with them, but the importance of knowing who they are is so huge.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Yes. So ultimately, I had a client in mind, but I actually want to just talk about it in general because I think it's powerful. And then I'll use that example. But I would say the first piece of the puzzle is understanding who your customer is and understanding them, meaning I want to know everything about them. I want to know, like, they're like. And we call it the customer avatar, customer profile, whatever you want to call it. But basically you are developing who are they? What is their name, how old are they? Where do they live? What is their job category? You know, where do they like to shop? Where do they like to eat? Like, get detailed about this person and even to like, what generation are they in? Are they a gen xer? Are they a millennial? And then as you break those things down, this will help you with being able to design your products with them in mind. Depending on how many customer profiles you have, you can be able to like, okay, my focus area, if I'm targeting this specific type of customer, their marketing channel is going to be in a certainly, you know, different place from maybe customer b. And so understanding who your customer is will help you to kind of build out and then know how to attract them and create compelling messages. And so I kind of teach that specifically because I think it's important to know who they are and important to know what service you can provide them. Because I found, like, when I did my customer profile, I realized some of, I have three different customers and some are just like self motivated. They just want to do their own thing. So I had to create certain things for them, which was maybe courses. They're self guided, do your own thing, like, have fun at it. And then there was some customer profiles where I was like, they actually need that one on one interaction. These are the ones I'm going to have sessions with, I'm going to be consulting with. And then some people are just needing me to, like, come teach this stuff. Right. That's where this dynamic comes in, where I'm a speaker and a podcast guest. So it just really depends on the customer profile that you've created and understand, and now you can target them with your specific services.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel like the more you get clients and you have experience with clients or experience with customers, the more you're going to understand that. I think there's only so much you can do by building, I guess, a customer avatar. And I think when I first started mine, I'm like, I've been doing these customer avatars over and over again and I still don't really understand fully how to serve them. But I think the more you or you get that one client, that's just insane, amazing. Just you feel on fire with them, that you use that one person to then build more out in your business because now you really have connected and built that relationship. And that's why building relationships is like the key to understanding who they are. I mean, you can do all the research you want on your Internet, but the actual relationship and connection is where you're going to find the most data?
[00:30:02] Speaker A: I would say yes, yes, and totally. If you can't base your customer profiles around the people that, you know, friends, your family, they're not your customers. Most of them, most of the time. And so that was my first, like, ah. Like, I was building it based upon a few of my friends who, don't get me wrong, I really love them, but I realized they weren't my ideal customer because they just weren't looking for my services. So a lot of it, too, is understanding your real target market of who you're trying to attract and then build off of that. And a lot of times, like, even me, I used to find my customers in random places, right? Like, if I was at the mall or, you know, if I was at a certain shoe store, wherever it was, y'all can see I love shoes. But anyway, and so a lot of it was like, oh, my gosh. Because I'm seeing she's shopping here. So that means that she probably, you know, I'm guessing, of course, but I'm, like, understanding maybe the way she's dressed. And so as far as helping one of my clients develop her customer, it helped because for one, I think she was attracting the wrong people, and I had to get her to understand, like, actually, you're better at being actually consultant and speaker. Like, actually, that's your bread and butter. Like, that's where you thrive. So this whole time, you've been trying to get these small little clients when actually, I think you need to go in there. So then once she changed her model, she's been booking speaking gigs out, like, out the water. And so that's where I was like, okay, this is where the unique piece is. Like, you actually have to know your customers are to be able to, you know, really secure what you're trying to get in business.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And who do you really thrive with? And I think a lot of people think, well, I have a service. It's great. I've done this research on who I should serve, and it's just not for the right people. It's not that you have the wrong service, necessarily, or the wrong product or something, but it's really that you just haven't reached the right people yet or found them. And so I think it's always like that discovery process till you refine it more and more, we gotta find those people that really love what we do and are passionate about that are just on fire with us. You know, like that feeling. We all know that feeling of like, oh, we're on fire with this client or this person that loved our stuff, you know? And that feeling is amazing.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yes. And honestly, they're out there looking for you. Like, you have the answer to whatever person's problem, whatever it is that you're providing as a service, someone out there is looking for you to solve that problem. They'll come. It's just more. So just focus on what you have now in your hand. Deal with them, be a good steward of that. And then the more other people will start to come and see, and of course, word of mouth and things like that will bring more people to you.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I want to speak on relationship over transaction. It's. It's also relating to competition.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: How do you think that plays a big part in competition? Because a lot of people get worried of, like, there's too many photographers, there's too many website designers, there's too many. How am I supposed to stand out? You know, like, how does that really play a part in the competition aspect.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Of funny, the competition piece? Because I even said that with, like, coaching where I was like, oh, my God, everybody just decided to be a coaching. Like, everybody just wanted, like, I went to certification school and everything, and everyone just wants to be, you know, I was so frustrated with that. And honestly, I was burnt out, to be honest, because I was like, they're telling them the wrong information. Like, things like that. But I will say with competition, there's two pieces, right? Because everybody knows you're always going to have a competitor in your market, in what you do. They're going to be almost synonymous to you, right? But one of my friends always taught me this. She said, when you go into the grocery store and you go down the water aisle, how many brands of water do you see? Plenty. You see a lot different brands. That is the same thing with you. What makes you different? Your clients will like you. That's what matters. They're still in the stores, right? Everybody's still there. You can pick whatever brand you want, but they're still going to be choose you for whatever it is. So as far as competition, I look at it in two lanes like, it really doesn't affect me anymore like it used to. But if anything, I do see what they're doing. I do see what their prices are, and I balance in that realm. But a lot of it, I don't really pay attention too much to what they're doing. If anything, I will just take anything that might be helpful, like, if there's a certain, you know, model that they're trying or something. Like, and I see that it's, you know, helpful, but honestly, I look at whatever my competitive advantage is, and that's how I stand out. So everyone should, if you haven't, you need to find out what your competitive advantage is, and that's what makes you stand set apart. So everyone has a different one, and you have to figure out what yours is, because once you see what your competitive advantage is, that's how you're going to be able to secure clients. And those are the ones that's going to follow you in your journey with your business.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: And I think since we're on the topic, one of the biggest competitive advantages is the hospitality aspect.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah, well, honestly, it's so funny because when they see my company name, it's called D Milan Hospitality Dashira Milan. And automatically they're like, hospitality. You don't have a hotel, you don't have a restaurant. And I'm like, this is how I get them. Okay. Because basically the Sheira Milan's hospitality towards you is going to be something. We are the quintessential answer to imminent hospitality. We are something that is genuine, that is unique, that is real and authentic, and you can't make this up. You feel good when you leave my company. So, yes, I have a hospitality statement in my name, but it's actually how I'm providing that service to you that's taking it as top up. And so the same thing goes for every entrepreneur that's going to watch this. So you are setting yourself apart by providing that one extra added piece. So, like, let's say you have as a freelance, you know, photographer or videographer, what is it? You know, is it a handwritten card after you finish something. Right. Or for, you know, if anybody does, like, clothing, if you have a special bag that has something on there or, you know, one of my favorite was when I went to expo, a person had, they were selling stuff and they had cookies. I love cookies like that. We went to the table because it had cookies, but it was, and she was like, are you going to? And I actually bought a book like she.
I think it's that distinguishing what makes you different. I always love certain, there's a certain restaurant I go to and just how they make me feel. And so therefore, that's what's going to make you stand out. That's the competitive advantage.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel like when people are like, okay, what's different about me? It's you're more than just your company or your business or your service. Like, you're a person that has so many passions and. And all these different things in your business. So, like, yeah, I mean, you might be a photographer, but maybe you love cookie decorating, and you can add that into your experience or you love, you know, visual art or watercolor painting, and you're gonna add that into your experience and send them one of those pieces. So it's like, we have to realize that we're way more than our business or one product we have, but, and we can add our, like, passions and ourselves into our business. I think that's the biggest thing relationship building is, like, especially dating. Like, you think of dating, right?
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Like, you. You have to, like, give parts of you and serve the other person with parts of you that are. That are authentic to you.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:43] Speaker B: I think the more authentic we are, the better we can build relationships.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's the whole point of, like, if one person says, it's not always about us, right? It's not about you, it's about others. Right. And if we can really come from a place of, like, I want to be kind to others. I want to serve others. I want to be there for others and provide not the service from the aspect of don't look at them as a dollar sign. Actually look at them as humans, as people that are helping you build the business, helping you grow your brand. If you can look at each person individually. And that's what the distinguishing factor is, that, you know, Jane's name, you know, Jane's daughter just had a birthday. You know, John's, you know, dog is a shih tzu. That's what keeps people coming back. That's what keeps people wondering, like, oh, I gotta, you know, make sure I support, like, even my dog groomer. I go to them only because they treat him like he's like a king when he comes. He always comes out with a cute little tie. It's like I keep going back to them, and they keep increasing their prices, and yet I still go. So the point I try to make is, if someone loves what you've done, the work that you've done, they're going to keep coming back, and they're going to tell more people about you.
[00:37:45] Speaker B: And if we don't charge enough or have the capacity to support our clients because we have too many or too many coming in at this lower price, we don't have the capacity to serve them in that way. So also comes to that, like, when we're talking about competition, too, is like, you know, the more we, like, add into our experience and take the time with our clients, we do have to raise our prices. We do have to kind of put ourselves up there and like raise our standard. Otherwise we have no capacity to serve them. I see that. I think you see that too. But in the industry, especially service based industry, we just like burn ourselves out by just getting as many clients as possible. It's not fulfilling, it's not long term, it's not sustainable like you're talking about.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Because you will have burnout. Because especially at the same, because of course, when you start out, everybody, you know, we're testing the waters.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: We're trying to see discovery stage.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah, everyone has that, you know, that starter value that you're like, oh, this is great value. And then you're really like, ah, let me, you know, rise. But I will say that I think a lot of it also ties into, like you said, what is your capacity level? What is the amount of time that you could invest into these different projects, into these different clients and then being able, and it's okay to turn away a client or say, not right now, or I'm only able to serve this amount this time. Don't worry about them not coming back. That's another thing. We forget the follow up. We always forget to follow up because we're so busy. And even if you have to hire somebody really quickly to answer messages or reach out to somebody that you haven't, you know, spoken to in three months or so, we have to go back. And because you just never know coming back and circling around, you may be able to get a client that will help you grow your business even more. But I think the burnout of like trying to make sure you secure as many as possible because you want the most money, take money off the table. Money is just a byproduct. Someone taught me that, a mentor taught me that years ago. Do you do the work, do the service, do the job? The money is the byproduct. And if you can detach yourself from dollar signs and people and just be able to just do the work, I promise you it will make things. And I understand we all have life stuff. We have to pay bills. I totally get that. I do not want to dismiss that, but I want to be honest. Like, if you don't, if you look at it from a dollar value, you're not going to enjoy what you do, which is really something you're passionate about. And if you have to actually like, run for the money or get for, you will not have a clear pathway to being able to be a profitable, you know, peaceful business where you're actually doing something you love and you're not worrying about the dollar sign.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: And that's why I think hospitality is like the superpower to it all, because it really helps us raise our standard. I mean, when we think about the people we, I think it's just naturally, the more we care and serve people, the more we raise our standard, the more we realize, okay, I don't need to take on this many people to be fulfilled in my life. Like you said, when you see it as a money sign, what does that money mean? But, yeah, you can have, like, 10,000, $20,000 more a year. But what does that mean, like, you know, to your life and, like, survival, like you, the quality of your life, the quality of our relationships with our clients really affects the quality of our lives. I just know personally with my clients that I just love. I love them. I see their family grow. I'm a photographer, so I can do their wedding and their engagements and then their first baby, then their pregnancy and their second baby, and then I see them at other weddings. That's the beautiful, most fulfilling part of what I do, is just seeing them and connecting with them and being happy for them. It's that whole relationship building over time and a longer period of time as your business grows, that just is way more fulfilling than any number can bring in your business.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Right, exactly. And I know a lot of times society teaches us about volume and bottom line and all this, you know, all these people. And I realized I saw so many businesses in the pandemic become these popular businesses, social media, business people, and now a lot of them aren't in business anymore. They've pivoted, or they're. And I'm just like, why? Because you were so focused on telling everybody to become this big, all these sales, and you got to get more sales and more sales, and now you can't even sustain those sales, and you have to shut down. I just personally don't think that's sustainable. I understand. I always think of the tortoise and the hair. Like, I always think, like, slow and steady, it wins the race. You know, make sure you have this, and you got to do this and you got to do this. And, yeah, that drove me crazy in the pandemic because I thought I was.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Urgency, I thought I was behind.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: I really didn't thought I was moving slow. I'm like, what? And now all the things are starting to fall into place, and I'm like, I've seen so many businesses shut down, pivot you know, all that started at the same time as me, but because of, you know, that fast hair mentality. And so the same thing for anybody that's listening, it's like, it's okay. Build this thing. Build it out. Trial and error. Please, like, be a person, a student to your business. Like, figure out what's going to work best and then make sure it's duplicatable because you don't want to be in your business forever. You want to be able to, like, relax and go on vacation.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And that urgency, I think, is so prevalent with access to social media and gurus. And you need this strategy. You need a multimillion dollar business with this many clients and this, you know, just like, you need this. And I think bringing it back to know, you need to serve your clients the best of your ability, like, the best person to serve and to love them, like, care and serve. I think, again, like, the, the magic, the forefront that you're, we're all talking about today.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: To be honest, too, like, especially in this virtual world, I think I will say social media has done a great job at allowing us to connect with people all over the world. But also, too, social media can make you feel like, oh, my God, I'm not doing enough or I'm behind. So I want to have a balance with, you know, social media of making sure if you're going to be connecting or you're putting out products that you want people from all over to see, you know, put that out, put the authentic you, but don't feel like you're behind or like you're not doing enough or you're not, you know, reaching the right people. Because there's people I've met, like, all over the world, and I never forget, I went to a trip to Dubai and they were like, we need you over here. And I'm like, what? I would have never knew you needed my services, you know, if I didn't go over there or have on social media. So I say all that to say is, like, your clientele is all over. They can be, of course, you know, depending on where, but, like, there are people that are coming to you to need your services. So just be mindful, just because you're maybe slow and steady, just keep building and you'll win the race.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Okay, we're going to end on one last question, which is just, what's one of your biggest failure but learning lessons you want to share with us?
[00:43:57] Speaker A: Oh, gosh, failures.
There's so many, you know, in entrepreneurship, I know you can probably all attest to that. I will say the biggest failure is not utilizing my resources wisely. And when I say that I spent money because I was listening to the wrong people about how to build this business, how to attract the right clientele. And I think I should have started off, like, especially when you're fresh first starting out, spend a lot of money to build your business. Like, it. Now, of course, depending on what type of business, if it's a brick and mortar, it may cost some money, but a lot of it, even if you're just putting a plan together, like, it shouldn't cost you a lot to start, especially a service based business. And then as you're building the business, like, making sure that you utilize the resources that you have, everything that you need is already inside of you, and you just have to tap into that creative strategy. This free resource is everywhere. Okay? I can find a free resource on Google anywhere. If you ask me what it is, I'll find it. There's something out there. And I think a lot of times I would share that. Like, use what you have to help yourself grow. And when money is requested or needed, make sure you spend wisely. Don't spend all your money in one bucket. And don't you know, if you're getting whatever type of funding that you end up securing, like, be mindful and try to only utilize it for whatever you need. Because I learned that the hard way, especially, like, you know, building the business with my own funds and my own savings. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, the money was so much that I'm like, if I could go back in time, I would have told the younger me, like, don't do that. And I will also say it is totally fine to pivot. Like, it's totally fine if you started off one way. And this was like, I think I've changed my coaching model five times at this point. And I think I was originally like, I don't remember what type of coach I was in the beginning, and then I turned into business because I was good at that and I had a degree in that. Then I was like, oh, but I'm really, really great at holding people accountable. That's my secret, secret sauce. And so I combine all of those things together. If you pivot, like, make sure you have a plan in place. And when you are building up that customer profile, don't have a broad group of people. Like, everyone can come to me. Niche yourself down.
Make sure it's a specific group of people that you're trying to focus on. We always have outliers. Right. But if you can just niche yourself down, it will help you because each niche has their own customer base. And so I would say the failures for me were also, I take them as lessons always. I don't look at them as the wrong opportunities. I would just say, look into those options of making sure that you kind of, before you even take off, like, find the resources that are really helpful, only invest in what's needed and make sure you niche down when you're trying to put together your clientele. Love that.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much to share. This has been an amazing conversation. Like, oh, my gosh, we can go part two, part three, part five, part 20.
[00:46:50] Speaker A: Because if we could ever talk about entrepreneurship and the journey, that's a whole.
[00:46:54] Speaker B: Other thing we all have you on again and again because we can just talk all day. There's just so many great nuggets and so many things. I mean, whoever's listening is, I'm sure, getting so many great gold nuggets from this conversation, from you and your expertise. So thank you so much for being on here today and sharing all that. And just where can everyone find you and connect with you?
[00:47:14] Speaker A: Yes. So I'm on Instagram as desiramalan. I'm on TikTok as deshiramalan. I'm also on Facebook, but I'm not really on there, but dashiramillon as well. And then you can always go to my website, www.dashiramillon.com.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for being on.
[00:47:31] Speaker A: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and good luck to everyone, whoever watches this. I hope that you're inspired and I truly, truly think, and I'm wishing you so much success in your continued business.
